Legislature(2013 - 2014)BELTZ 105 (TSBldg)

03/19/2014 01:30 PM Senate JUDICIARY


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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
-- Teleconference --
* SB 180 POLICE STANDARDS COUNCIL
Heard & Held
-- Public Testimony --
HB 292 2014 REVISOR'S BILL
Scheduled But Not Heard
Bills Previously Heard/Scheduled
= SB 176 REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIVERSITY
Heard & Held
          SB 176-REG. OF FIREARMS/KNIVES BY UNIVERSITY                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:19:50 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAIR  COGHILL announced  the consideration  of SB  176. "An  Act                                                               
relating  to  the  regulation  of  firearms  and  knives  by  the                                                               
University of Alaska."  He said it was the fourth  hearing of the                                                               
bill. He  noted the proposed  committee substitute  (CS), Version                                                               
Y.                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:20:48 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  MCGUIRE  moved to  adopt  CS  for  SB 176,  labeled  28-                                                               
LS1385\Y, as the working document.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL objected for purposes of an explanation.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:21:50 PM                                                                                                                    
CHAD  HUTCHISON,  Staff,  Senator   John  Coghill,  Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, Juneau,  Alaska, presented  Version Y  of SB  176 on                                                               
behalf of  the sponsor.  He explained that  Version Y  focuses on                                                               
concealed  carry. He  cited an  article  called "Despite  Policy,                                                               
Weapons  Still  Appear  on  University   Campus"  that  quotes  a                                                               
security officer  on the  UAF campus.  In 1995,  the UA  Board of                                                               
Regents established a policy that  does not allow anyone to carry                                                               
concealed  guns,   knives,  and  explosives  on   the  university                                                               
property, inside university buildings  and classrooms off campus,                                                               
or at university-sanctioned events.  But, Officer McGee says that                                                               
Alaska's conceal and carry laws  may keep him from enforcing that                                                               
policy. He said, "As the police  chief, and as a resident here in                                                               
the state  of Alaska, I  think there's probably a  greater number                                                               
of firearms  on campus  than any  of us  really know  about; it's                                                               
just  that these  people aren't  using their  firearms to  commit                                                               
criminal acts."                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR.  HUTCHINSON said  this demonstrates  three things:  there are                                                               
already firearms on  campus, clarity, as it  relates to concealed                                                               
carry, is necessary, and the current  policy of UA does not work.                                                               
He  opined  that the  CS  strikes  a balance  between  individual                                                               
rights  to  keep and  bear  arms  and  the individual  rights  to                                                               
privacy. It constitutes a  reasonable compromise between concerns                                                               
of  university   students,  safety   in  the  schools,   and  the                                                               
fundamental rights of individuals who have guns on campus.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He stated that the fundamental principal  of the bill is that the                                                               
university may  not restrict concealed  carry. There  are certain                                                               
restrictions  that relate  to weapons  misconduct. He  provided a                                                               
sample  of  the  restrictions.  As a  compromise,  the  bill  now                                                               
includes the  use of an approved  lock box for the  weapons and a                                                               
permitting process is required.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
2:29:02 PM                                                                                                                    
HANS  RODVICK,   Intern,  Senator  John  Coghill,   Alaska  State                                                               
Legislature, Juneau, Alaska, presented  information related to SB
176  on  behalf  of  the sponsor.  He  explained  the  permitting                                                               
process  of  obtaining an  Alaska  concealed  handgun permit.  He                                                               
shared the  history of  the concealed  handgun permit.  He listed                                                               
who could, and could not, carry a concealed handgun.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
2:31:32 PM                                                                                                                    
He summarized the  requirements to carry a  concealed handgun. He                                                               
discussed the  required competency  class. It tests  knowledge of                                                               
Alaska   laws,  self-defense   concepts,  responsible   use,  and                                                               
physical  competence with  a handgun.  A  person must  go to  the                                                               
Department of  Public Safety and  pay for the license  and submit                                                               
fingerprints and a  digital photo that was taken  within 30 days.                                                               
He opined  that these  rigorous requirements  to obtain  a permit                                                               
strike a balance of public  safety and lawful citizens exercising                                                               
their  fundamental rights.  He stated  that statistics  show that                                                               
these individuals will be lawful and safe.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
2:35:08 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR MCGUIRE  asked how the university  received the committee                                                               
substitute.  She submitted  that  Version Y  is well-crafted  and                                                               
provides more safety assurances.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. RODVICK deferred to Mr. Hutchison.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUTCHISON  said he's conferred  with the  legislative liaison                                                               
for the university system and  the attorney who drafted the legal                                                               
opinion  of the  first version  of  the bill.  He said  President                                                               
Gamble  would disclose  the results  of the  University Board  of                                                               
Regent's executive session.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  COGHILL  said he  assured  President  Gamble that  he  was                                                               
taking this legislation seriously.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:37:33 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR DYSON  strongly suggested fleshing out  the definition of                                                               
"lock box." He asked if the university regulates pocket knives.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUCHISON  agreed to  the conversation  about a  definition of                                                               
the lock box.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL expected to find a  solution to this bill by Monday                                                               
or not at all this year.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR MCGUIRE  asked how legalization  of the use  of marijuana                                                               
interfaces  with  the federal  requirement  of  attesting to  not                                                               
being addicted to a controlled substance.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. HUTCHISON agreed there is an apparent conflict.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL opened public testimony.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
2:41:53 PM                                                                                                                    
PATRICK  GAMBLE,  President,  University  of  Alaska,  Anchorage,                                                               
Alaska, answered questions related to  SB 176. He maintained that                                                               
most of  the discussion, including  the recent  presentation, has                                                               
missed the  point of  the university's concern.  The focus  is no                                                               
longer  on fundamental  rights of  the individual  and now  deals                                                               
with a  compromise. He  stressed that the  Board has  not changed                                                               
its position and continues to  believe that board policy has been                                                               
effective.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He termed the dilemmas "legal  and operational" The legal dilemma                                                               
is that  there are excepted  gun carry  areas in the  state under                                                               
state law. The  question has to be why those  areas were excepted                                                               
- why have  they been taken out of those  fundamental rights. The                                                               
answer  is risk  and safety.  The Supreme  Court determined  that                                                               
states could  make exceptions and  Alaska did. He  concluded that                                                               
Board policy is  based on those exceptions.  He further described                                                               
the dilemma  of trying to  map the  state law with  its concerns,                                                               
over onto  a university  community, which has  many of  the exact                                                               
same conditions that  are listed in the  state's exceptions, such                                                               
as "K - 12 students" and  "around a place serving liquor" and "in                                                               
a residence without the permission of the chief resident."                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He emphasized that the bill  creates unintended consequences that                                                               
are real  world, operational,  actions and  responsibilities, and                                                               
liabilities, that the university is uniquely responsible for.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He  discussed   the  fiscal  note   which  contains  a   list  of                                                               
operational  provisions that  the  university would  have to  put                                                               
into place  in order to get  around the exceptions on  campus. He                                                               
opined it would  be costly, as reflected in the  fiscal note. The                                                               
number  in  the fiscal  note  was  taken  from  the cost  of  the                                                               
University of Idaho's operational plan, a single campus.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
2:47:27 PM                                                                                                                    
PRESIDENT GAMBLE discussed  risk and why there  are exceptions to                                                               
areas where  guns can be  carried. He stated that  the university                                                               
does  not deal  in hypothetical  scenarios, but  in probabilities                                                               
due to  being accountable and  liable. The university has  a risk                                                               
assessment system which determines a  value for risk. He said the                                                               
"state of play"  today is that the campus is  24 times safer from                                                               
violence in  terms of murder and  assault with intent to  kill or                                                               
maim than on city streets in Alaska.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He reported  only four gun  incidents where there  was discipline                                                               
involved at the University of Alaska  in the last three years. In                                                               
terms of risk,  the UA campus is  one of the safest  places to be                                                               
right  now.  Increasing  the  number  of  weapons  increases  the                                                               
probability  of accidents.  He referred  to  hundreds of  letters                                                               
from donors,  faculty, and students,  in opposition to  the bill,                                                               
who say they  are not going to  stay in a public  school that has                                                               
this law in its current, as-written state.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
He said  in his experience,  most accidents in the  military were                                                               
self-induced  and  the  more  weapons,  the  more  incidents.  He                                                               
concluded that  the bill will  not make  the campus safer  and he                                                               
has evidence that there is a downside to the bill.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
2:52:02 PM                                                                                                                    
He concluded  that the  bill is  a moving  target and  that isn't                                                               
impressive. With some pushback there  was an effort to compromise                                                               
rights just  to get a  bill passed.  The Board policy  looks good                                                               
and they are satisfied with it  in its current form. His said his                                                               
assessment  is that  the  probability and  liability  of what  is                                                               
currently  in  place  are  nicely  balanced.  This  bill  doesn't                                                               
enhance that.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
2:54:02 PM                                                                                                                    
SENATOR  WIELECHOWSKI said  his  perspective is  that  this is  a                                                               
constitutional issue. In the future  he'd like to hear from legal                                                               
scholars on the issue.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL  said he agrees.  He doesn't believe  that citizens                                                               
check their rights at the university  door. He said he is willing                                                               
to work on the safety issues.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
PRESIDENT GAMBLE  said it has  been a  good hearing on  the bill.                                                               
He said he supports the dialog with constitutional scholars.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR COGHILL concluded  that President Gamble has  to manage the                                                               
campus from a  legal and a practical perspective. He  said he has                                                               
to  look at  the  individuals  in Alaska  and  ask about  citizen                                                               
rights.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR   COGHILL   held   SB  176   in   committee   for   further                                                               
consideration.                                                                                                                  

Document Name Date/Time Subjects
HB 292 Letter from Dept. of Law.PDF SJUD 3/19/2014 1:30:00 PM
HB 292
HB 292 Sectional Analysis.PDF SJUD 3/19/2014 1:30:00 PM
HB 292
HB 292 Fiscal Note - Dept. of Law.pdf SJUD 3/19/2014 1:30:00 PM
HB 292
HB 292 Amendment C.1.pdf SJUD 3/19/2014 1:30:00 PM
HB 292
SB180 Sponsor Statement.pdf SJUD 3/19/2014 1:30:00 PM
SB 180
SB180 Sectional Analysis.pdf SJUD 3/19/2014 1:30:00 PM
SB 180
Written Testimony #4.zip SJUD 3/19/2014 1:30:00 PM
SB 176